He just thought he was being silly with a guy who did a silly thing. Is it true that Leonardo DiCaprio auditioned to play Joker before the role was given to Phoenix instead? in my head. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Others have been quick to point out that he'd have been unable to get out once he climbed inside, so it's certainly plausible. 1981 is when the movie takes place, but did Joker become to become Joker in the 80's in the setting of other Batman movies? At the beginning of the film they're both shown to be good enough friends that they joke together. Edit, The film's script clarifies that while his producer tries to end the interview, Murray refuses because he believes that it's making great television and that he may win an Emmy or a Peabody for it. Why is the film just called "Joker" and not "The Joker"? That's the true end to the story. SPOILER: Did Murray deserve to die in the Joker movie? - Quora 2b) would be Batman starts even younger, similarly to how the show Gotham is running, with a 40-something Joker a realistic threat to a teenage Bruce. Edit, Unlikely as his Joker would be too old by the time Bruce grows up and dons the cape and cowl. With that in mind we now take a look at the 10 worst things Arthur does throughout the movie to turn him not just into a bad person, but Gotham City's feared Clown Prince of Crime. He lifts Bruces mouth into a twisted smile in a similar way he does when putting his clown make-up on in his dressing room at the start of the movie. Edit, Yes Arthur killed the three bankers on impulse. Jonathan "Black Jack" Randall was the key antagonist in the first three seasons of Starz series Outlander. He probably injured his foot or leg then. Like much else in this movie, whether this is *THE* Joker's origin story or just *A* Joker's origin story is left to the audience to guess. Arthur's mother: And did Arthur really kill his mother in hospital? Joaquin played the role perfectly. The exploration of Arthur Fleck (Joaquin Phoenix), a man disregarded by. So at the end of the movie, was all this Joker stuff all just a dream or a daydream in Arthur's head? Penny's story is that after their affair he had her sign papers so that it would keep quiet and appear as nothing more than adoption, where Thomas says she was crazy and adopted him. Murray Franklin: Murray Franklin died a very public death as it was broadcast nationwide, so it would be hard to argue that he didn't die. Joker Ending Explained: What Happened at the End of Joker? Edit, It's called Pseudobulbar affect (PBA), or emotional incontinence, which is a type of emotional disturbance characterized by uncontrollable episodes of crying and/or laughing, or other emotional displays. It's more likely that Arthur became overpowered with rage, when Randall began to discuss the police investigations, and forgot about the wine. Edit, If you mean the series of films starting with 1989's Batman, that's another timeline. Just like no one thought his comedy bits were funny but him. Did Thomas Wayne really have an affair with Penny? But one aspect can't be argued: It is disturbing and . Exactly what kind of illness/disorder was Arthur suffering from? When he made fun of Arthur, he didn't know Arthur had a mental illness which caused him to laugh so much. That said, it's likely that Penny's issues have a deeper root cause than mere sadness. He even refused to play any comic book characters in the past. Did he commit a crime or was there some other reason? Very likely. Why exactly was Arthur locked up in the hospital BEFORE the events of the film? Also because there were no cameras and no reliable witnesses to confirm the identity of the suspect. "For instance, his relationship to Sophie is a fantasy to him. Millions of Indonesian parents abandoned a measles vaccine in 2018 when it was declared haram. The scene at the very end, with Arthur locked up talking to the doctor/social worker - is it meant to be later, after he's been captured again, or is it a flashback to when he was hospitalised before, as was referenced earlier in the movie? Why is Joaquin Phoenix's version of Joker wearing a red suit doesn't Joker always wear purple? Randall, apart from generally being mean, insisted on him taking his gun. Viewers have offered several possibilities:1.) And while preparing for Murray's show, he kills his former co-worker, Randall. It is basically a scene of a child craving for warmth and affection. Arthur wears two masks -- the one he paints for his day job as a clown, and the guise he projects in a futile attempt to feel like he's part of the world around him. Murray may have realized that either he was going to get lots of ratings or make television history. Was the whole movie a reality, or was all just in Arthur's head and he was incarcerated the whole time? A film about the past of the Joker we see in The Dark Knight (often theorised to have been a veteran, based on some of his actions) would even be great. When he killed Randall, he did not kill his other colleague who was present in the room, despite the fear that he could go to the police. His gait is confident, loose, and relaxed, and that is how he imagines himself. | Arthur Flecks crimes begin to catch up on him and two GCPD officers try to apprehend him during an action-packed chase scene. Which one to choose? That line is important. Arthur's counsellor who eventually cut off his access to meds, which led him spiralling downwards even further, was also a black woman -- even though it was the system that failed both her and Arthur. He always got in trouble even when he didn't do anything wrong like when he got fired or when his boss thought he stole the sign so he started doing things intentionally to get in trouble and escalate events since either way he was always punished. In order to verify both Thomas Wayne and Alfred Pennyworths version of his backstory, Arthur travels to Arkham State Hospital and steals some paperwork that reveal he was actually adopted. Woodlands had dinosaurs before it was cool. No one else thought that it was funny but him. Knowing he cant trust a word his mother says, Joker decides to kill her. Isolated, bullied and disregarded by society, Fleck begins a slow descent into madness as he transforms into the criminal mastermind known as the Joker.Fair use.\"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for \"fair use\" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. He is a mentally unstable failed comedian who, following his great lack of success and respect, loses his sanity until he becomes a nihilistic and psychotic criminal known as the . When Arthur speaks about comedy being subjective is this a knock on modern comedians and their controversial jokes and skits? While Fleck doesnt do anything particularly bad, hes creepy throughout the showdown. He would have been separated from her as a child but, once he turned 18, if he wanted to live with his mother as soon as she was released nobody could stop that. During his appearance on Franklin's show, Joker tells cruel, unfunny jokes that elicit groans from the audience and a verbal scolding from one of his fellow guests. Outlander: 10 Things That Make No Sense About Jack Randall - Screen Rant Like he is on the spectrum and he cannot relate. So he made a "comedy" bit out of it instead. 2) It's meant to be deliberately ambiguous, him being locked up for his crimes. This puts Arthur's birth year in 1948 or 1949, meaning that he was 32-33 years old during the events of the film. Joker (2019) | Villains Wiki | Fandom Randal is a clown-for-hire who works for Haha, the same entertainment business in which Arthur Fleck works for. Also, Todd did not want him in the film, because he wrote the script with Joaquin in mind. It was a different time, with much different attitudes about smoking.As long as Arthur was able to pay for his cigarettes, he would have been allowed to have them. But wasnt Arthur afraid at all that Gary would go to the police and tell him that Arthur killed Randall? That means people pick on him and when a colleague named Randall gives him a gun because he's his "boy" and he needs to "protect himself." Arthur decides to take him up on the offer. Edit, This Question, like many others, is answered by the theory that - None of it was real. Edit, It's indicated that Arthur himself never truly believed they were together, that's when we finally know that it had actually only been Arthur fantasizing about her all along.Alternatively, it could be that he was numb from so many traumatic events (beatdowns and tauntings, murdering people, investigation by the police, losing his job, losing/killing his mother, being mocked on national TV, rejection from the Wayne family, not to realize his whole abusive crazy childhood) that realizing Sophie didn't actually know him was just one more rejection and loss piled on. plot explanation - Who killed the Waynes in "Joker"? - Movies & TV Arthur was wronged by Randall. It gets to the point where he's struggling just to breathe. By Alex Leadbeater. This would presumably also include the hospitals. Cloud hosting by Vodien. Unlike regular superhero movies, (Shazam, Suicide Squad or any other Marvel movie), there is no one transformative moment in Arthur's story that made him the Joker. The 3 guys in the subway attacked Arthur first. Randall represents the elite whereas Garry is a symbol of the lower classes. What Randall didnt think would happen, however, was that Joker would bring the gun into a childrens hospital. Either way, the scene really hammers in how Arthur doesn't really have a chance in the world of Gotham. It could be that it's someone else's fault Murray got killed because his team didn't up security on the show like they really should have. It is currently unknown why she let this happen, but it's presumed she was abused by him as well, causing her mental problems. Answer (1 of 28): Arthur was adopted by Penny just to receive welfare from the government. Those scenes where Arthur was with his "girlfriend" or up on stage doing stand-up and getting cheered, he walks, talks and reacts in almost "normal" ways. Edit, It was a Pre-Model 36 version of the Smith & Wesson Chief's .38 Special, it was mistakenly misidentified as a Colt Detective Special. Or did he really care for the Joker as he said? This also reinforces the idea that he's a product of his environment - cold and dark.4.) ** Use in-universe knowledge, rules, and common sense to answer the questions. We're meant to believe the Joker is insane and unhinged enough . By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. 2) Arthur's actual age isn't as old as Phoenix and he just looks that way because he's unwell and a smoker; Fleck could begin taking care of himself and be a villain for a very young Batman (depending on Canon Batman starts at 25, so if Fleck is just an old looking 35, he would be 52 when "Year One" takes place). Using the gun acquired from Randall, Arthur kills the first two men in self-defense. There's also the scene when Arthur is on the bus and starts playing peek-a-boo with a baby who is staring at him, which makes the baby laugh. To make matters worse, he looked like he was genuinely enjoying himself before they stole his sign, not just faking a good mood for the job. While some of what he does is understandable, Fleck ends up crossing line after line and, by the time the credits roll at the end, hes a very different man from what he started the blockbuster as. He stops short of killing him but flees from the scene. The whole thing was brilliant, and huge, and like he said to her, Joker doesnt flinch as he drives a pair of scissors into his former boss eye and proceeds to repeatedly slam his head again a wall before he bleeds out. (SPOILER) Why did Joker kill him? : r/joker - Reddit To be absolutely fair, the Arkham case file is more evidence than just the word of a clearly deranged woman. Gotham is already a powder keg, and Arthur unknowingly lights the fuse that sets off others to take up violent action, inspired by Arthur's actions. Edit, Randall gave the gun to Arthur for money (which he intended to demand from him later). Edit, There is every indication that the whole thing was in Arthur's head. Arthur and his mother live in poverty, so how could they afford to own both an answering machine and a videocassette recorder? Joaquin loves the Joker. Metacritic Reviews. After his stand-up act, Arthur and Sophie's little romance was the only heartwarming part of Joker - but none of it was real. Edit, There are nine confirmed deaths in the film, six of them killed by Arthur.The three Wall Street businessmen: shot to death, on the subwayRandall: stabbed in head with scissorsPenny Fleck: smothered with a pillow in the hospitalMurray Franklin: shot in the head at point blank range. Could Thomas Wayne have forced Penny to sign fake adoption papers to cover up the child born out of wedlock? "Does the fact that the original health worker and interview room, were different from those at the end of the movie not suggest it was a reality and at least some of the events did occur?Edit: There isn't "every indication" it was all in his head. He also brought a gun in a children hospital and lied by saying it was a prop when asked why he has a gun on him. Updated triggering record with value from related record. During the opening scene, where Arthur is so depressed that he has to yank the corners of his mouth up into the shape of a smile, which just doesn't do the trick. When he goes down the stairs, it is an effortless journey of liberation as he metamorphosised into the full-dressed Joker for the first time and he danced down the stairs. He seemed like a jerk who liked to pick on Arthur's condition? Did she have this procedure before the abuse took place and could this explain how the abuse could happen without her stopping it? Who is never mean to Arthur and is treated rather mean by by everybody (even (maybe unintentionally) Arthur). Todd Phillips Cut Zazie Beetz 'Joker' Scene That - IndieWire Was he too smooth and not awkward enough? Anorexia is sometimes considered a form of body dismorphia, which could also be why he seems more comfortable when wearing his clown makeup.. Edit, This Joker is a completely standalone non-canon take on the character. For more information, please see our I kept saying "Please don't kill him. Privacy Policy. they are saying it is too violent and empty). Published Oct 4, 2019. A place to discuss all things related to DC's Joker character. Some people have asked me, 'Was she killed?' Usually the Joker's laughter is portrayed as campy, terrifying, or some combination thereof. When Arthur Fleck inadvertently started a movement of ''poor vs rich'', the poor donned clown masks, and started to protest. A contextual clue that maybe he didn't is later, Fleck didn't murder Gary (Leigh Gill) because the little person was the only clown at his workplace who was nice to him. Three rich bankers: For sure Arthur did those as their deaths were acknowledged on television and by Thomas Wayne, as mayor-wannabe. Did Arthur/Joker kill the mental hospital clerk who refused to give him the papers regarding his mother? I get that Gary was the only one who was ever nice to Arthur, so he spared him. That's how many times something he couldn't control bothered/annoyed/confused someone, that he had to go out and have a card specially made just to receive a modicum of understanding. Its a decision that costs Arthur his beloved job as a clown and gives him even less reason to embrace the good things in life. 3) The name joker ends up being a title that Gotham's craziest, most dangerous and influential criminal takes over; this would allow for a "Jokerverse" where each style of Joker gets his day. For example, if the movie title was changed to Depression, with no hint that this movie is about the genesis of a comic book villain, it will play out like an absolute tragedy (a live studio shooting as the city got engulfed in riots and overrun by looters). Was Gary actually the only person who was nice to Arthur throughout the whole movie? Was it all in his own head or did it happen and Arthur Fleck is merely incarcerated by the end of the movie? To make it worse, the mother possibly doesn't even care about this explanation. The most sensible explanation is that he was off his meds, not drugged up and dulled and couldn't control his emotions, and needed to find a space that would deprive him of further stimuli. **It's like Ask Science, but all questions and answers are written with answers gleaned from the universe itself. Movies & TV Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for movie and TV enthusiasts. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Belmont Lay Too tempting to let go.7.) Arthur's existence was barely registered by Sophie, his black single mother neighbour raising a daughter, and he ends up fantasising about her. When Arthur's boss fired him over the gun, how come Arthur didn't mention Randall giving the gun to him because he was told to have it for self-defense? By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. (Early eighties, no cell phones.) Whenever Arthur trudges up the stairs, which are plenty, it is a physical representation of his struggle in life as Arthur. Edit, No-one.Todd knew, that Joaquin is the perfect role for the Joker. He is one of the lead factors to the Joker going insane. Edit, Arthur's therapy and medication are paid for by the city government. He basically celebrates that. Edit, Maybe. , as well as the fact that Bruce's actor played a young Joaquin in another film. Arthur is killing people who've wronged him in a certain way, and Sophie never wronged him." He's an unreliable narrator who has a poor relationship with his mother. Or did he really care for the Joker as he said? "Alternatively, in the bag that Randall gave him, it looked like there were plenty of bullets, even if one doesn't assume that the gun came pre-loaded. He says: "Want to hear a joke?". But as Murray is horrified to the revelation that Arthur killed the three Wall Street guys earlier in the movie, Joker has a change of heart. The entire ending, after all, plays like a deranged and alienated man's ultimate fantasy - he publicly gets even with everyone who ever humiliated him, murders a famous celebrity live on national television, and not only does everyone love him, he inspires a mass movement that seems to worship him. Who is Arthur's father in the movie or comic? Metaphorically Gotham is presented to us as a cold place, in which whatever the character does he's punished for. The first is that his revolver only holds 6 rounds maximum. The blas attitude to people dying in the movie. plot-explanation joker Share Improve this question Follow edited Jun 20, 2021 at 15:14 Napoleon Wilson Edit, Throughout the film, Arthur appears to have depression which is displayed many times throughout: We don't actually see Thomas doing anything wrong (other than being understanbly hostile towards a Arthur after the stunt he pulled on Bruce) that may suggest he is so amoral and corrupt that he would go into such illegal extents, instead of doing what real rich people do when they want to hide old shames (hire a "fixer" lawyer to quietly reach an economic agreement). Joker (2019) - Plot - IMDb Cookie Notice PS: Because if things didn't fall into place, the director would have no way to make arthur fleck the joker, and justify the name of the movie Is this an origin story for the Heath Ledger Joker or is this the same Joker from the comics? We saw that Arthur ran out of ammo during the subway scene, but then he had some when going on TV. We never see him eat, but we do see him feed his mother, and eat nothing himself. plot explanation - Why does no one notice the Joker's presence as a The movie does not directly tie into Ledger's portrayal in "The Dark Knight" as it takes place in the 80s. You could say it matches the Christopher Nolan trilogy but this film is intended to be on it's own. The total number of cases in Singapore stands at 57,915. Ergo, him calling him clowns. Instead of going into the cinema wanting to catch a movie about a comic book villain, audiences can watch it as a movie about a man broken by his mental illness. (C) Even if his lawyer could arrange some kind of plea-bargain deal to get his sentence for the third killing reduced, Arthur's using a gun he was not legally allowed to own (due to his being mentally ill) would also earn him some further prison time and civil penalties. Edit, She was real, but only his first meeting with her in the elevator, the stalking and her final scene in her apartment (when she questions him about his name) happened. Edit, "comedy is subjective", It is sort of a truism but it does fit, some people like a certain kind of humor that can fall completely flat for others. Some fans might disagree with Sher, however, since Sophie's reaction to Arthur being in his apartment could be viewed as wronging Arthur. "Not all people are awful." Arthur's been told his mother is delusional and maybe he doesn't want to accept that and live with that? Arthur was making up at the dresser when he heard someone at the door, and he instinctively took with him a pair of scissors. Well, one thing we can agree on at least is just how every it is when Joaquin Phoenix gives his final laugh of the movie. Can someone explain what the red footprints were at the end along the corridor and then the running about at the end of the corridor? But there is something a bit off with this scene. Arthur then killed Randall, when Randall and Gary came to visit. If you like what you read, follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and Telegram to get the latest updates. We now take a look at 10 times he was absolutely terrifying in the grittiest blockbuster of the year. Forcing a mental patient to quit cold-turkey was probably viewed as unnecessarily stressful, particularly at a time when only the most strident anti-smoking crusader would have even cared. How was Murray able to air the footage of Arthur's comedy act without getting a release first? He explains that Gary's kindness didn't go unnoticed, which shows he doesn't murder indiscriminately. Edit, Gotham could possibly have its own Wall Street. A key point of the movie is that it gradually becomes clear that we cannot entirely trust anything we've seen. Randall gave the gun to Arthur for money (which he intended to demand from him later). (B) A competent defense lawyer (assuming Arthur could get one) could likely get the first two killings ruled justifiable homicides, but the third man he killed was retreating; pursuing him and finishing him off with malice aforethought as Arthur did is murder in the first degree according to the laws of every state in the USA. Everything between that was in his head. His death or being dead would make more sense to him than his own life of living, OR (Biggest opening weekend in Singapore for NC16-rated movie ever.). The first scene we see Randall, as he hands Arthur a gun, Randall has an evil smile on his face while suggesting Arthur "pays him back sometime", followed up with "you know you're my boy." which triggers Arthur's laugh. This shows us that it is not an imagination of Arthur or a misinterpretation but rather that Randall is fully aware of his role in handing the gun over to Arthur.Most of these contacts are also contrasted by Gary.